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An interview with Ivor Blumenthal : CEO of the Services SETA PDF Print E-mail

A case for Recognition of Prior Learning in South Africa

You were previously CEO of an Industry Training Board for five years, and then went on to run the Association of Personnel Service Organisations (APSO) and for the last decade have been CEO of the Services SETA.  Why in this period of time have you not obtained a Doctorate like some of your counterparts in Government?

I have a very eclectic working career and in many ways the vehicle of RPL or Recognition of Prior Learning is ideally suited to me. I have chosen to work instead of paper-chase qualifications. I now demand recognition that my working career has not been in vain and can be translated into academic credit as it is done in so many countries around the globe but where South African Institutions struggle to attach academic credit to my accomplishments.

But you have earned academic qualifications since leaving school?

Yes I have. I have an undergraduate degree, a BA. I also earned an Honors Degree in Clinical and Counseling Psychology, from RAU and then a Post Graduate Degree in Management from Wits Business School.  However, I am most proud of two other qualifications which I have earned which are not really valued nor credit-bearing in the world of academia, namely a Masters Degree, 11 years ago, obtained from a Private College in the USA based on the RPL profiling of my work product to-date and my thesis: “Structuring a Professional Association” which is the work I had just completed. I did this for my own satisfaction and from a research perspective to validate the procedural mechanism I had employed in structuring that organisation and not to parade as a conventional MBA or Masters that one would earn from a “red-brick University”. The second qualification I am very proud of is one of our own Occupational Qualifications in Labour Relations, also obtained via a combined RPL route and selected training intervention, which by now close to 2000 people mostly working in the Trade Union and Labour Relations environments have also obtained.

Why is obtaining credit for work experience and accomplishments so important to you?

It is not only about what is important to me but also what is important for this country. I maintain that effective RPL, done as it can be done for example via Bath Spa University in the UK which has developed the technology to look at work product and translate that into academic credit, not only for access but for completion, is critical for our society if we are to truly begin to recognize competence as opposed to memory retention, as is practiced in many South African Universities. RPL is about the application in the real world, on a consistent and repeated basis of competent behavior and performance.  There are millions of people in South Africa who have never had the chances or privileges I have had and hence have no degree and are never afforded the acknowledgement or credit for the quality of the contribution, which they make on a daily basis.  

Why should they be given credit when they have not qualified to register at a University or paid the fees associated with those types of studies?  

Because society conventionally places value on this type of recognition whether we like it or not. Because some of our most competent people in this country are so busy making a living and successfully achieving their objectives day-in and day-out that they do not have the time to sit in a classroom for three years being taught by someone less inclined to practice and overly inclined to lecture. Because those “real” people out there have the right to be recognised as competent in their chosen field irrespective of how they got to that point. And because, one of the only ways of being recognised as competent is being awarded with a qualification which indicates that competency.

Is RPL to be used only for access into a qualification? Is that the International experience?

No. I firmly believe that if a University or FET Institution has good assessors on-board, then that organisation is able to maximize RPL applications and formulae, not only to allow people who do not have a Honours Degree to access a Masters or MBA qualification, or a Masters Qualification to access a PhD, but more importantly once accessed to look at that individuals work-product for credit-bearing purposes too.
We seem for two reasons to be one of the few countries in the world not able to do that. The first is that we do not have sufficiently qualified assessors to judge and evaluate competency in work-product and the second because we have a National Education Policy that while neutral is interpreted by Universities to not encourage RPL beyond the 50% mark. That means that even if a person has built a billion Rand organisation, managing many resources such as People, Product, Logistics, Marketing etc. closed-minded interpretations of National Policy from these Institutions means that no-matter how obviously competent that person is, he/she can never earn more than 50% of credit towards a qualification. How arbitrary is that?
But you are currently registered for a PhD at a South African University. Is that not a contradiction when you claim that these Universities are unable to accommodate your model of RPL?
I am registered for a PhD in Labour Relations at The Da Vinci Institute which is a private South African University, accredited by the Council on Higher Education up to Doctoral level. Da Vinci very definitely is not indicative of the traditional University model in this country.  This is an institution which puts the person first and is able to admit and grant credit based on its sound policies and practices and skilled personnel and above-all is willing to understand the working persons restrictions while still operating within the terms and policies of its CHE accreditation.

Surely this institution cannot be that different from other Universities in South Africa then?

The one important difference is that Da Vinci sees itself in-partnership with it’s mature, working students and not in a Master-Servant relationship as might be experienced at an under-graduate level at most Universities.
There have been lessons to be learned on all sides including Da Vinci’s. Initially the message being sent out by some assessors was: “Master the module you want RPL credits for, become familiar with the Models and with the Theory and then and only then look at your work product and justify RPL credit in-terms of what you have learned on the module.” That makes nonsense of the principle of RPL and work was required for Da Vinci to recognise that it needed skilled people to staff an RPL centre who could in-fact do that work and not the applicant him/herself who otherwise would have been expected to do double the amount of work to earn the RPL credit.
One could refer to the latest book about George Soros entitled “Soros on Soros” which reflects a collection of interviews conducted by a team of skilled assessors and journalists, about George Soros’s life. Once these interviews are complete it is then possible for a skilled assessor to frame those experiences in-terms of modular and conventional theory and hence submit that work for a PhD award. That is proper RPL.

Who would you suggest qualifies to go that route to earn a PhD in South Africa?

Politically, Madiba, Trevor Manuel, Fikile Mabhula and Tony Leon.  Sports wise, Ali Bacher, Louis Luyt, Francois Pienaar, Lucas Radebe and Gideon Sam. From Business I might nominate Pam Golding, Wendy Mechanik and Richard Pike from Adcorp. I would certainly also include Zwelenziva Vavi, Sdumo Dhlamini and Dennis George amongst this group from organized Labour. These are all people who have excelled at what they do and society should insist on giving them the recognition for what they have already accomplished without requiring them to jump through monumental and time-consuming arbitrary hoops.
Never forget that the purpose of RPL is not only to recognise competency but to learn from the person being RPL’d so that their RPL can make a meaningful contribution to our Body of Knowledge in a particular area of expertise.

But Madiba has many Honorary Doctorates?

RPL is not about conferring “Honorary Awards” on people. It is about awarding actual qualifications for quantified and formulaically established evidence of actual competency against the same standards of competency which traditionally enrolled students might be measured.

When you were recruited as CEO of the Services SETA, were you recruited on the basis of your qualifications or on your work experience and evidenced competencies?

If a qualification were a pre-requisite, I would not have applied. I applied because my Legal experience, coupled with my HR experience, Training experience, Development and Consulting experience, and my Psychology background put me in a good place, to be able to do the job. My recruitment was done on the basis of experience and not my qualifications.

The same is true of your Chief Financial Officer? He is after-all not a CA?

Absolutely. But again, a decade later he has turned out to be the best CFO in the entire Public Sector and not only amongst SETA’s. He was recruited for his evidenced skills and not his qualification. I believe however that SAICA would be well placed to do the “Soros on Soros” thing for him. What better kind of a hero than a CFO who has managed to achieve a clean audit since the inception of the organisation in the Public Sector, in this country?

 
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